I would like to respond to some of the comments directed toward the
Edgewater Park Reporter to the Beverly Free Library Post of last week.Kenton Haaf made a statement in his 8/22 comments that said, "Thinking
further this EP reporter person doesn¹t seem to have a name either? Although
he or she might mean well. It seems more likely to just be another trouble
maker. As he quotes on his home page from the sign on Cooper street
"anonymos words have no meaning or merit." Should we believe anything you
say without a real name? Got any suggestions to make things better or are
you just spreading poop whoever you are?"
Well Kenton, your first assumption that the Reporter is one person is not
correct. One person does moderate the comments published on this blog.
If you remember you history of the founding of our country, many of our
founding fathers published their thoughts under anonymous or pen names to
hide their identity out of fear of retribution. Well this is the reason the EP Reporter
do not use our names in this blog.
The present Edgewater Park elected officials and Administrator have shown
that they will use any means, to punish any resident for publicly
criticizing the decisions and actions made by them.
An example of this is when the Township Committee and the Township Clerk, allowed a letter (published on this blog) to be distributed at a township meeting this spring
(included in the public handout packet) that had many unsubstantiated statements made about several people who have publicly commented, suggested ideas or criticized decisions made by the Township Committe at township meetings and this letter was signed with a fictitious name.
(included in the public handout packet) that had many unsubstantiated statements made about several people who have publicly commented, suggested ideas or criticized decisions made by the Township Committe at township meetings and this letter was signed with a fictitious name.
You would not believe to what extent they have gone, to try and identify the Edgewater
Park Reporter.
Park Reporter.
The Reporter does have a suggestion for how to make things better; VOTE THE
CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE EDGEWATER PARK TOWNSHIP COMMITTEE OUT OF OFFICE, STARTING WITH TOM PULLION, WHO IS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION THIS YEAR. The EP Reporter has also suggested that The TOWNSHIP COMMITTEE, ALSO GET CONTROL OF THE TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATOR AND STOP ALLOWING HER TO LEAD THEM AROUND BY THEIR NOSES.
Now lets address the EP Reporter's reason for publishing the Beverly Free
Library Story.
As you must know the Beverly Free Library is supported with
tax dollars from Edgewater Park ($2,500.00, 2007) along with the amount
contributed by the Burlington County Library, which is also supported by a
County Library Tax, paid by the Edgewater Park property owners. This financial
support gives the EP Reporter the right and the responsibility to question
any decision made by the Beverly Free Library Board!
tax dollars from Edgewater Park ($2,500.00, 2007) along with the amount
contributed by the Burlington County Library, which is also supported by a
County Library Tax, paid by the Edgewater Park property owners. This financial
support gives the EP Reporter the right and the responsibility to question
any decision made by the Beverly Free Library Board!
When you are appointed to any public board that accepts taxpayer dollars,
you have the responsibility to be very careful when making decisions for
that organization. You especially need to see that you are not favoring one
political group over another with your decisions. To do so only invites
controversy, criticism and bad publicity.
you have the responsibility to be very careful when making decisions for
that organization. You especially need to see that you are not favoring one
political group over another with your decisions. To do so only invites
controversy, criticism and bad publicity.
The EP Reporter doesn't for one minute think that the decision to rent the
Old Well Pharmacy to contribute to the Beverly Free Library's financial
support, but the EP Reporter does question how the Library Board allowed themselves and the
library to be placed in the embarrassing position of trying to explain why
they are renting the Old Pharmacy to a political party and not collecting
rent.
Old Well Pharmacy to contribute to the Beverly Free Library's financial
support, but the EP Reporter does question how the Library Board allowed themselves and the
library to be placed in the embarrassing position of trying to explain why
they are renting the Old Pharmacy to a political party and not collecting
rent.
Instead the Board is allowing the political party, to pay the
utilities, to clean and to paint, instead of cash. Now if the building was
not rented, then what utilities needed to be paid except for some security
lighting? Because the building will only be used for the political season,
you wouldn't need to heat it, so how is this a smart deal for the Library?
utilities, to clean and to paint, instead of cash. Now if the building was
not rented, then what utilities needed to be paid except for some security
lighting? Because the building will only be used for the political season,
you wouldn't need to heat it, so how is this a smart deal for the Library?
The EP Reporter would have had no problem with the Library Bd renting out
the building with a formal arms length lease with the proceeds going to the
operating expenses for the Library. Because the Library is supported with
tax dollars, any leases and business transactions should be open for the
public to see.
the building with a formal arms length lease with the proceeds going to the
operating expenses for the Library. Because the Library is supported with
tax dollars, any leases and business transactions should be open for the
public to see.
Now you may argue that because the Old Wells Pharmacy is owned by the
Beverly Free Library, Inc. and not the Beverly Free Library, is exempted
from public scrutiny, but the EP Reporter disagrees. Because the Reporter
has not been able to find out whom the owners of the Beverly Free Library,
Inc are (waiting for the State of NJ), the EP Reporter is assuming that the
owners of Beverly Free Library, Inc, is the Beverly Free Library Board of
Directors because of the Boards involvement in leasing the Pharmacy. I doubt
that they would do that if they were not the owners.
Beverly Free Library, Inc. and not the Beverly Free Library, is exempted
from public scrutiny, but the EP Reporter disagrees. Because the Reporter
has not been able to find out whom the owners of the Beverly Free Library,
Inc are (waiting for the State of NJ), the EP Reporter is assuming that the
owners of Beverly Free Library, Inc, is the Beverly Free Library Board of
Directors because of the Boards involvement in leasing the Pharmacy. I doubt
that they would do that if they were not the owners.
Another reason for the EP Reporter and the taxpayers to know about the terms
of the lease, is the City of Beverly gave the Beverly Free Library a
Mortgage in the amount of $17,402.00 on 4/12/2005, under the City of
Beverly/Mt. Laurel Regional Contribution Agreement Rental Housing
Rehabilitation Agreement. This money is to be used to rehab the apartment
that is above the old pharmacy. A copy of this mortgage can be found in Deed
Book No. 5586, Page 214 in the Burlington County Clerk¹s Office.
Now the EP Reporter finds it interesting that the Mortgage is made out to
the Beverly Free Library, but the owner of the property 433 Cooper St. Deed
is Beverly Free Library, Inc. This deed can be found at the Burlington
County Clerk¹s Office in Book 5586, Pages 214, 215 and 216, recorded
4/17/98. Perhaps an attorney can comment on the difference between the name
differences and if it has any bearing on ownership.
of the lease, is the City of Beverly gave the Beverly Free Library a
Mortgage in the amount of $17,402.00 on 4/12/2005, under the City of
Beverly/Mt. Laurel Regional Contribution Agreement Rental Housing
Rehabilitation Agreement. This money is to be used to rehab the apartment
that is above the old pharmacy. A copy of this mortgage can be found in Deed
Book No. 5586, Page 214 in the Burlington County Clerk¹s Office.
Now the EP Reporter finds it interesting that the Mortgage is made out to
the Beverly Free Library, but the owner of the property 433 Cooper St. Deed
is Beverly Free Library, Inc. This deed can be found at the Burlington
County Clerk¹s Office in Book 5586, Pages 214, 215 and 216, recorded
4/17/98. Perhaps an attorney can comment on the difference between the name
differences and if it has any bearing on ownership.
To address your comment, that your parents are good people and only want to
do good for Beverly the EP Reporter agrees 1000%, but that doesn't mean that
your dad is not to be criticized for being involved with the bad decision by
the Library Board. When you agree to take a position of responsibility on a
public board you must except that many times you will be criticized for your
decisions. If you can't accept that, then you have no business taking the
position.
do good for Beverly the EP Reporter agrees 1000%, but that doesn't mean that
your dad is not to be criticized for being involved with the bad decision by
the Library Board. When you agree to take a position of responsibility on a
public board you must except that many times you will be criticized for your
decisions. If you can't accept that, then you have no business taking the
position.
The Beverly Free Library is an institution that is far too important to both
Edgewater Park and Beverly. We need to see that any decisions made by the
Library Board are in the best interest of the Library and the residents for
whom it serves. Keep all business open to the public and make sure that
party politics do not cloud the Library and its reputation.
Edgewater Park and Beverly. We need to see that any decisions made by the
Library Board are in the best interest of the Library and the residents for
whom it serves. Keep all business open to the public and make sure that
party politics do not cloud the Library and its reputation.
The Edgewater Park Reporter
I am adding the links that I commented on today 8/27/08
25 comments:
It is difficult to understand how you, "the EP reporter", has any relevance to the founding fathers or to any political figurehead that participated in this country's establishment. The reference is obscure.
I tend to feel that given the quality of information that you, the entirety of the EP reporter team, give hints at your possible political influences in EP. Would you know what EP is capable of, when township slander is prevalent? If so, I think it appropriate that we know who you all are. If you claim no influence in current politics, how much time did you spend researching this topic? It was exhausting, I'm sure. I know that it is exhausting to me to know that something as innocent as a free library has malicious, under the table, intentions.
Can't wait until the Beverly Bee reports on this!
ahh, it appears the EP Reporter is on to something. Anonymous doesn't know his his/her history and must be close to the characters who created this embarrassment for the Library.
I love this blog. It's great. All the blame; all the finger pointing; all the tears of the unjustly treated. It's great!
It's better then a Soap Opera.
Here is what an EP taxpayer thinks of the EP Reporter:
THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU
If it were not for this blog, myself, and many others in this town would never hear anything even near the truth. It is essential to hear both sides of any story, and without you, we would only be hearing one. Unfortunately, and I know this from personal experience as a citizen here, many of the comments made by the current administration ARE NOT TRUE.
I am not involved in politics here, but feel compelled to get the current regime out of office.
When a "CLERK" runs your town, what do you expect to happen - POOR DECISIONS.
To the EP Reporter(s)
All I have to say is whew! Nice try to explain yourself(s). Although I do agree whole heartedly about voting out Tom Pullion. Believe me I will NOT be voting for him, never have, never will. I also agree they are other people on the committee that need to be replaced. I live in EP so I do what I can when I vote. Still to compare the reason for your animosity with our founding fathers, well that's not making too much sense. And just like Judge Judy says "if it doesn't make sence it's probably a lie" I seriously doubt the king will be after you for treason, and you're worried you'd be dangling from the end of a rope with your actions, and gee what can the Twp committee do to you? Raise YOUR taxes and no one else's? Just not buying your explanation. Now if you remember your history. When push came to shove and it was time to do something about the problems in this country. Our founding fathers all signed the Declaration of Independence with their real names now didn't they? I would expect the same from you if you ever decide to really do something about the problems.
I also totally accept, understand, and have no problem with that anyone in doing work for the public will have people that don't agree with some decisions that are made if they understand what's going on or not. My problem was, and is that the EP reporter published that Publius rhetoric at all. Which was a direct attack of the Beverly Bee, and my parents. Where they live or how much money they have has NOTHING to do with any decision made about the library. That was nothing but trouble and BS. You knew it when you put it on there, but you did it anyway. Maybe you're Publius, or maybe you should volunteer to help with the library board yourself. Because even though you have a whole bunch of stuff to say about it, none of it is helping what you have conceived as a problem. Oh that's right, you're afraid of letting people know who you are.< /SPAN>
Isn't a building used temporarily with expenses and improvements made with no cost to tax payers better than it sitting there in the condition it was in better than doing nothing? You are entitled to your own opinion, but I don't see that hurting any taxpayers. That position is no better than Pullion letting the coat factory screw us out of the proper taxes for the monstrosity of a building that lets face it the present owners won't be there after 30 years when they are supposed to pay what they should on that real estate. Again maybe you don't agree with that either but that's how I see it. Or is it all you people are upset because it's the democrat's got the idea with the Wells' building first?. Probably would be fine if the republicans thought of it before the democrat's did? The decision about the library wasn't politically driven. So maybe it's beyond your means to understand that? I just don't know.
In my opinion small town politics shouldn't be party driven anyway. It should be by people who care about the community they live in and that's all. After all real politicians are lawyers, they understand the laws and write the laws. What are small town officials? Lets see, aren't they homemakers, trucking company salesmen, business owners, retired people etc. in short terms regular people. I assume like yourself or "selves". I don't claim to know all the issues or really know exactly what to do about it, but at least I don't just bad mouth people and start trouble with no offers of solutions as yourself(s). Speaking of that makes me wonder why in your response that you keep using the word "I" instead of "we". Just another thing not to believe about the EP reporter as far as I see. None the less. I appreciate this forum, and think some good can, and will come out of it.
It would be nice if this matter was over now, there are more important matters to deal with, but I guess we'll just have to see.
Proud to put my name here.
Kenton Haaf
After attending some Township meetings of various bodies and reading the posts and "reports" on here, it can be said that the truth lies somewhere between what the official line is and what is plsted here. Neither is completely accurate.
To anonymous 1:40 pm
That's why this blog exists. It's a real shame when in small towns like EP & Beverly that the "official line" as you put it isn't the whole truth from the start. It sometimes takes the
limelight on things to get the real truth especially in a closed government like EP.
To Kenton Haaf:
I applaud you for defending your parents and understand that you are hurt by some comments; however, your statement,"Isn't a building used temporarily with expenses and improvements made with no cost to tax payers better than it sitting there in the condition it was in better than doing nothing?", I have to disagree with if non-profit laws say otherwise regarding politcal uses. Perhaps the Library Bd. would have been better served trying to find another worthy organization like scouting for their annual food drive to use the facility temporarily through the holidays in exchange for the clean-up bartering. What was done is no different than donating taxpayer funding to a political party and it shouldn't be. The Library Bd. should have consulted with their legal counsel before making that decision and perhaps they would have all the bad PR now.
To anonymous 8/26 9:01 PM and Kenton Haaf,
Please check out the following articles to verify that many of our founding fathers indeed used pen names to disquise their authorship of various articles and pamphlets.
http://epaper.jdnews.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SkROLzlwMDYvMTcjQXlwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom
and
www.i2i.org/Main/article.php?article_id=1387
Just a few names; Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay
The Edgewater Park Reporter
Key words "(if)the non profit laws". All this and no one has really found out if they were violated? geez!
Please check the listing of corporations on the State of NJ Web site. Do a search for Beverly Free Library, Inc. and see what the State of NJ status is for the Beverly Free Library, Inc. How could this corporation buy the Pharmacy for $83,000 in 1998?? How can the City of Beverly give a mortgage in the amount of $17,402 to the Beverly Free Library for rehabbing the apartment above the Pharmacy in 2005 when the Pharmacy property is owned by Beverly Free Library, Inc. The Beverly Free Library and the Beverly Free Library, Inc. are not the same corporations or legal entity.
Check who are members of the Library Board and see what other public boards they serve. You talk about clicks. The PR problem cause by the Library Board's decision on leasing the Pharmacy to a political party for no money may be because of no true oversight because the same people serve on the oversight boards. I don't think this is a good idea and can lead to bad decisions.
Did the Library Board get a Certificate of Insurance from the political party they gave the lease to? My understanding is that they are working on it now. The Library Board should have had this proof of insurance, prior to letting the political party using the building. Ask any lawyer if this was a smart idea.
The reason this poor decision by the Library Board needed to be exposed, is that their actions have placed the Library in a bad position and have exposed problems that have been ignored for at least ten years. The only people responsible for this is the present Beverly Free Library Board as well as the past members.
Who appoints the Library Board Members? Is it our elected officials in Beverly and Edgewater Park or is it done by the Burlington County Library? I think whoever does also shares responsibility.
Thank you EP Reporter for bringing this to the publics attention, after all the Library Board's actions could have cost our community an important asset.
The pharmacy was GIVEN to the library by an Edgewater Park resident, it wasn't bought by them.
Anonymous Aug 27 11:21AM. Why does the Feb. 26, 1998 Deed recorded April 17, 1998 in Deed Book 5586 page 214, 215 & 216 state this Deed is made Between Grantor Clarence J. Ward and Anna T. Ward, His Wife and Grantee, Beverly Free Library, Inc. Stating that the Grantor grants and conveys (transfers ownership of) the property (called the "Property") to the Grantee. This transfer is made for the sum of Eighty-three thousand dollars ($83,000.00)?
No deed has been recorded in the Burlington County Clerk's Office that records any transaction between a Edgewater Park Resident and the Library or the Wards who owned 433 Cooper St and 432 Bridge Street since July 1, 1971.
If you have any proof, show it!
Talk about truth.
Why the SILENCE Mr. Anonymous and Mr Haaf?
THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE
I'm going to make this short and sweet. If you have any questions about what's going on with the library go to the meeting yourself. It's sometime next week. If you care you can find out for yourself.
Capitol hill senoir all I have to say to you is Dr. Suess writes the fiction, leave it to him. You got about oh, no facts correct so you get no explanation for your comments. Anyone that's lived here for a few years knows the pharmacy was a gift form a bank president that used to live here. Gave money too. Now there's someone ho cares about the town and he's not even living here anymore. Educate yourself before you write down what you think are facts. Also, the library board is almost all volenteers you could have found that out for yourself too if you botherd to. But I don't think they need your help.
In addition if anyone bothered to ask the soliciter here, or in Bevery, or your lawyer you would get the same answer. Nothing illigal is going on so this needs to stop. As I said before there are more important things to worry about.
Oh and by the way you're as anonymous as most. So there's a reason not listen to you anyway!
Gee, I wonder who that Edgewater Park Resident is or was????? I will give you three guesses.
Just as a bit of info to you all who are up in arms as to how the library could qualify for rehab money for the apt above the pharmacy... The qualifications for rehab money depend on the income(s) of those who are living in the unit at the time, not by who/what the owner is. I've looked into, and know others who have been a part of this program.
As was stated before, check all of your facts.
I rejected a comment this afternoon that just had a name as a comment.
The reason this comment was rejected is the name was not accompanied with any proof. If you have proof that this person purchased the Pharmacy property please email the deed book and page number that shows this was done.
If you go to the Burlington County Clerks Office and do a search on the Pharmacy and you will find that the last sale for this property was the sale between the Wards and the Beverly Free Library, Inc in 1998.
There are no other deeds recorded between 1998 and today.
Cry me a river,
The affordable housing law requires that any housing rehabbed with affordable housing money must be deed restricted so that only persons that qualify income wise can live in the unit or home. The owner of apartment properties doesn't need to be income qualified but must agree that any units rehabbed must be rented only to low income qualified people.
That is why Beverly City will never attract the middle class resident it needs to bring the town back to be the nice town it was prior to 1970.
The payoff money accepted from the Moorestown's (rich towns) so that they didn't have to build low income housing, was used to rehab single family and multi family Beverly homes requiring deed restrictions on those homes for low income people only.
How smart is that. These properties are now deed restricted for low income residents only and these properties require a lot of up keep dollars (Victorian Style), now the property can't be purchased by middle income families due to the deed restrictions.
Doesn't Beverly have enough low income families? Didn't Beverly do its part in supplying low income housing by keeping and fixing up the Delcove Homes?
If the Beverly Schools are to improve, you need to attract more middle income families to our town.
Just take a ride down Cooper Street between Warren St and the railroad, you will see the what a ghetto we are becoming.
OK everyone it's time to move on. I think we have had enough of this. Isn't there anything else worthwhile talking about??? I think everyone has beat this to death. There isn't anything that is going to change this situation.
Looking from the outside in at Beverly (EP resident), one can see numerous ERRORS in judgement and management over the past 30-40years. Now it is very easy to sit back, and Monday morning quarterback, but I don't think that is productive for anyone.
If YOU care, I mean REALLY CARE about moving Beverly & EP forward, WE need to ALL put OUR efforts into creating positive solutions.
I have personally expressed both my ideas & frustration to some of the folks currently incharge, and have received "positive" feedback.
I don't care what anyone's political affiliation is, and neither should any of you. If someone is willing to help improve our community, and make this a better place for ALL of US to live I will support them. The reason I am against the incumbents, is because I don't believe they have done a competent job, most have the wrong attitude, and we need someone with moral substance, not a dictator as an administrator.
That is my opinion, and my two cents.
Ben Franklin - just kidding...
Edgewater Park Budgeted $2,500 for the Beverly Free Library in 2007 (also 2008) but didn't pay the Library accroding to the 2008 Edgewater Park Budget Municipal Data Sheet, sheet 20.
EP Reporter tries to compare himself to our founding fathers....nice try but not even close.
You have posted responses here that are not true (lies) and readers take them as the truth. The library is a 501-c3, the trustee board is appointed, the group Accent held a fundraiser for the library, the library bought the Well's building, ALL NOT TRUE! These are unsubstantiated statements that you accuse EP Committee of doing.
The library is not a 501-3c as Germer/publius found out at the meeting.
The library board is all volunteers with regular jobs, families and other interests. They take care of their children, gandchildren and families They DONATE their time to help the library. Are they perfect? No but at least they give their time not like many of the ones who complained about all this. The librarian in the BCT said most of the complainers she had never even seen in the library. Do they attend events, talks, childrens programs at the library? No, only if they can help themselves politically. No one ever cared about the library by their actions until now.
Accent kept all the funds from the sale of the dvds that night, I'm told. And later they turned out to be a political group.
You allowed private citizens(the Haafs) to be trashed on this site by cowardly Beverly rethuglicans & it had nothing really to do with library.
EP Reporter, your credibility has been damaged by all this. Were you willingly or unwillingly used by the Beverly rethuglicans? How can we now believe that what you write or allow posted to be true?
The only ones who look worse than you are Beverly republican nasty faction.
I used to tell people to check this site out but now I'm not too sure.
Hey Dan, I didn't know you were a game show host. Sounds like fun for three guesses! Wonder if the networks would be interested? Can I take three guesses for you? Are you Moe, Larry or Curly?
COOK, CRESPO, CHAOS CABAL UPSET ONCE AGAIN!!!!!!
Note: Cross Posted in the Beverly Library Blog
Almost a Doctor Cook in yet another of her partisan schemes (remember the dirty tricks which she tried and which backfired during her laughable run for a Freeholder seat last year) tied the Traitor and Liar Luis Crespo to her apron strings and seems to have induced Lyin' Luie to file completely worthless charges against me and against Bob Thibault, the highly regarded President of the Beverly School Board. You may not know it but Bob Thibault led the board which managed to oust Dr. Glen Gray after Gray's innumerable questionable and actually illegal actions.
Now the Cook, Crespo, Chaos cabal cannot stand any success by the Republicans at all. Crespo lied that he was a Republican and allied himself with Cookie even before taking his seat last year. This year he was repaid for his treachery by being named City Council President.
Not satisfied with their success in ousting a highly qualified City Attorney for a hack WITH NO KNOWN EXPERIENCE IN MUNICIPAL LAW, they added chaos to the mix.
First, they tried to discredit the School Board by filing worthless charges against Thibault. It cost the City Taxpayers well over $1,000 out of pocket for what amounted to a rump trial before a Democrat "Conflict Judge" with a "Conflict Prosecutor" to bring charges against Thibault because he dared to try to collect the money owed for work Thibault performed for Crespo. The hand picked "Conflict Judge" did find Thibault guilty in Municipal Court despite the fact that the law was not violated. Bob Thibault appealed to Superior Court which dismissed the charges in a hearing lasting less than a minute thus clearing Thibault's good name.
Flushed with apparent success after the initial Rump, er Municipal Court trial of Bob Thibault, Cookie and Crespo conspired again to bring charges against me, Bob Germer, of harassment because I questioned whether or not he had paid his municipal real estate taxes. Claiming that I called him a "heaping pile of manure" and that this was racial (!!!!!!!!), he had me tried by the same Democrat "Conflict" Judge and prosecuter again costing the taxpayers well into four figures! Not even the Democrat Judge could swallow this buffonery and found me NOT GUILTY.
Almost a doctor Cook (She passes herself off as Dr. Cook but never says that she is a doctor of Psychology or some other psychobabble wannabe profession) is desparate to get elected Mayor since she wants to get rid of the first School Board in 20 years to actually take control of the Beverly School and replace the members with political hacks like Mayor Jean Wetherill's predecessors did. It was the Louden and Cookie crowd which appointed a school board which allowed a Superintendent to rent St. Joe's so that the super's alleged girlfriend who wasn't even a qualified teacher would have her own school to run. It was the Lowdown and Cookie crowd which appointed school board members who gave the school bus contract to a relative of the Board President who had been found to be running with a driver with a suspended license and WITH NO LIABILITY INSURANCE FOR NEARLY AN ENTIRE SCHOOL YEAR.
So when Cookie needed a new ally, she set he sights on Lyin' Luie and together they brought Chaos into the mix running Beverly.
More to Come. Keep tuned for the dirt on a couple of the Dems running for Council as well as a couple elected last year.
October 3, 2008 10:21 PM
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